Sophie - Mozilla Firefox and version numbers
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Date: 2011-09-16 00:17
Security: Public
xposthttp://soph.livejournal.com/223318.html
Tags:firefox, rants
Subject: Mozilla Firefox and version numbers

Based on something I've read recently, I want to do a poll of my readers:

Poll #8093 Mozilla Firefox
Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 56


Do you use Firefox to browse the web?

View Answers

Yes, I use the official build of Firefox.
49 (87.5%)

Yes, I use a local build of Firefox.
0 (0.0%)

No, but I use a Firefox derivative (like Iceweasel).
1 (1.8%)

No.
6 (10.7%)

If you use Firefox (you answered Yes in question 1), do you know where to look to find the version number of Firefox?

View Answers

Yes; I'd look in the Help->About window (or Firefox->About on Mac OS X).
50 (90.9%)

Yes; I'd find it from elsewhere in Firefox.
0 (0.0%)

Yes; I'd find it using some method outside of Firefox, but I wouldn't know where to look for it inside the program.
0 (0.0%)

No; I'd have no clue where else to look for it.
1 (1.8%)

This question isn't applicable to me as I don't use Firefox.
4 (7.3%)

How about if the version number was taken out of the Help->About / Firefox->About window? Would you still be able to find the version number?

View Answers

Yes; I'd be able to find it from elsewhere in Firefox.
14 (25.5%)

Yes; I'd be able to find it using some method outside of Firefox, but I wouldn't know where to look for it inside the program.
17 (30.9%)

No; I'd have no clue where else to look for it.
20 (36.4%)

This question isn't applicable to me as I don't use Firefox.
4 (7.3%)

If you use Firefox (you answered Yes in question 1), did you know that there was a "Troubleshooting Information" menu item in the "Help" menu?

View Answers

Yes, and I use it regularly.
0 (0.0%)

Yes, and I've used it once or twice.
4 (7.4%)

Yes, and although I've never used it, I know what it does.
7 (13.0%)

I knew it was there, but I've never used it, and I don't know what it does.
10 (18.5%)

No, I never knew it was there until just now.
29 (53.7%)

My version of Firefox doesn't seem to have that option.
0 (0.0%)

This question isn't applicable to me as I don't use Firefox.
4 (7.4%)



I just read https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=678775, which was a bug that proposed removing the version number from the About box in favour of just having text that indicated whether you were on the latest version or not. The bug has been closed as invalid, so don't worry about it getting in; it won't. However, I just wanted to know exactly how people would have felt about this had it got in.

I myself have always had reservations about what the Help->About window actually means. The very fact that it's in the Help menu, and is labelled "About", seems to signify that you'll get information on what the program is about. For example, "Firefox is a web browser, used for navigating Web sites located on networks and the Internet."

But that's not what you get. In a typical About window, you get three or four items of information:

1. The name of the program - which you likely already know,
2. The version number of the program - which isn't typically something that would help the end-user if they're looking for help,
3. An acknowledgement of who made the program - often (understandably) without contact links, meaning this also wouldn't help anybody (and even if they did have links, users are typically looking for more immediate help),
4. A copyright notice. This is often, but not always, combined with the acknowledgements.

So, you basically have a Help->About box that neither offers help nor tells you what the program is about. (It tells you about the program, but not what the program is about.) So why is it in Help->About? Because that's where it's always been, and you don't mess with user expectations.[*]

The About box (or its equivalent in other languages) is the one place everybody knows they'll be able to get the version number of the program they're using. Pretty much every Windows program which uses menus has this information in the same place. (I can't speak as to Mac OS X programs, though.) The Bugzilla ticket may be closed now, and I can't fault people for considering the issue - it's always good to question why you do things. But this mainly seemed to be an order from on high , and attempts at actual discussion on the bug were shut down - and when it comes to user expectations, that's a big no-no.

[*] Yes, I know this doesn't hold water the whole way - why was it done that way in the first place? I don't know, but I can hazard a guess that it stems from the idea that developers needed somewhere to put the information so that users who called up for help would be able to find the information. Since the information was most likely put there in case the user needed help, I'm guessing that's why it was put in the Help menu. But - this isn't really the point here.

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Cody B.: contemplation
User: [personal profile] codeman38
Date: 2011-09-16 00:29 (UTC)
Userpic:contemplation
Subject: (no subject)

On Mac OS, the "About" window works the same way-- and has done so since very early versions of that OS. (In fact, I'm pretty sure the other OSes borrowed the 'about' behavior from Mac.)

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Cody B.: think different
User: [personal profile] codeman38
Date: 2011-09-16 00:30 (UTC)
Userpic:think different
Subject: (no subject)

...and I think that's probably why Apple moved it from the Help menu to the application menu, now that I think about it!

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cxcvi
User: [personal profile] cxcvi
Date: 2011-09-16 01:05 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I answered "Yes; I'd be able to find it using some method outside of Firefox, but I wouldn't know where to look for it inside the program" to the third question, but I'm wondering if going to a website that will tell me my user agent string qualifies as this. Of course, that used to be in the About box as well...

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Drew M.C.: Ragabash
User: [personal profile] dreamatdrew
Date: 2011-09-16 01:38 (UTC)
Userpic:Ragabash
Subject: (no subject)

That qualifies as an outside method to find out. It's actually one of the possibilities that was discussed in the conversation leading to this post unless I'm mistaken.

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User: [personal profile] feathertail
Date: 2011-09-16 01:39 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Oh snap, I'm the only person who answered so far who doesn't use Firefox.

In my defense, I'm seriously considering switching back to it from Chromium, just based on Mozilla's objectives versus Google's and their better concern for privacy and open-source. Chromium's so lightweight and easy to stop noticing, though. >.>

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Sophie
User: [personal profile] sophie
Date: 2011-09-16 02:14 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

You should never have to defend a decision on what browser you use, and I'm sorry that you felt you needed to here! The only real reason I don't use Chrome is because of accessibility issues.

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User: [personal profile] feathertail
Date: 2011-09-16 02:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

It's okay. >.>b What accessibility issues? Is Chrome not as supportive of disabled users?

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Sophie
User: [personal profile] sophie
Date: 2011-09-16 02:28 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Well, I seem to remember having problems with zooming the UI. I can't quite remember what, but I do need the zoom. I might take another look at it to see if I can remember what the problem was.

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User: [personal profile] feathertail
Date: 2011-09-16 02:30 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I know I have it zoomed in on most pages, plus I turned up the default font size ... the biggest issue I've noticed is that some pages don't display correctly. Like [community profile] becomeyourfursona, which has its nav menu shifted off to the left. >.>

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Sophie
User: [personal profile] sophie
Date: 2011-10-08 23:32 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I just noticed this response. I'm talking about the UI specifically, not web pages. Yes, you can zoom the main parts, but try to bring up the developer tools and they're not zoomed in at all, which doesn't help me. :/

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User: [personal profile] feathertail
Date: 2011-10-14 01:04 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Ah, sorry. :\

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Sophie
User: [personal profile] sophie
Date: 2011-10-17 22:33 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

It's not your fault! At least, I don't think it is. ;p

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pixel-stained technopeasant wench
User: [personal profile] vampwillow
Date: 2011-09-16 17:22 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

for the record, I don't *only* use Firefox. This machine, for instance, also has Chrome and Konqeror in regular use ...

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alicephilippa
User: [personal profile] alicephilippa
Date: 2011-09-16 02:09 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

Why was it done that way in the first place?
Even I can't remember the why, but it was certainly done that way in Windows 2 and I think 1.

It is one of the things that is a de facto standard that you don't mess with unless you've got a damn good reason for doing so. If that reason boils down to nothing more than "because we I want to" then that is a damn poor reason. Throwing toys out of the pram when every one disagrees is not the behaviour that one should see in the proposer of such a change.

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Azure Jane Lunatic (Azz) 🌺
User: [personal profile] azurelunatic
Date: 2011-09-16 03:21 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I answered as of my state immediately prior to reading the bug.

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pixel-stained technopeasant wench
User: [personal profile] vampwillow
Date: 2011-09-16 17:20 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

One reason for considering the idea specifically in Firefox is this (imho crazy) idea they've had of increasing the major digit every 5-6 months, purely on a timescale basis rather than whether there have been sufficient updates to be considered a 'major' release.

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display name
User: [personal profile] floatboth
Date: 2011-09-17 11:43 (UTC)
Subject: (no subject)

I use Firefox to test my CSS in Gecko, guess that counts as a "Yes".

On Mac OS X, you can see the version in Finder:
screenshot

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